Talk:Irish Travellers

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Figuring out where to put material on "Pony Kids"

I'm working on the article Fletcher Street Urban Riding Club, which is about an American organization that teaches young people about taking care of and riding horses. The article includes some material about horse-riding teenagers in Dublin, but it doesn't seem to belong in the article -- it's not closely related -- so I'd like to move it. I'm thinking this could be rewritten to fit under "Sports" in this article, since the practice seems to come from Irish Traveller traditions. Does that make sense? Suggestions for other places to cover this? Dreamyshade (talk) 17:27, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-Gaelic

I'm minded to just remove "Another theory is of a pre-Gaelic origin, where Travellers are descended from a community that lived in Ireland prior to the arrival of the Celts. Once Ireland was claimed as a Celtic homeland, this group was seen as lower class.^[1]^{[failed verification]}"

-I'm pretty sure this theory - surely never very widely held - relied on the old theories of the "arrival of the Celts", as a people bringing a language with them, in the Late Bronze Age or Iron Age, which no experts now really believe. The source, in an American "Journal of Civil Rights and Social Justice" clearly isn't specialized (in the right subject). It seems it may not actually say that anyway; pp 55-56 list various theories held in "popular speculation" that sort of come close. But genetic studies suggest an Early Modern rather than ancient divergence from the main Irish population. Objections? Johnbod (talk) 03:10, 15 August 2024 (UTC) Johnbod (talk) 03:10, 15 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently not - doing it. Johnbod (talk) 02:38, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Keane, David (2005). "International law and the ethnicity of Irish Travellers". Washington and Lee Journal of Civil Rights and Social Justice. 11 (1). ISSN 1942-5732.

2002 legislation

"Irish Travellers, particularly those that experienced a life of nomadism prior to the 2002 Irish legislation that altered living conditions, exhibit distinct gut microbiota compared to other Irish citizens, which is comparable to gut microbiomes observed in non-industrialized societies."

What was the 2002 legislation? How did it alter Travellers' living conditions? This seems like something worth including in the article. SchrodingersMinou (talk) 16:59, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You wouldn't expect a government Act to have an obvious name, would you now?

It's the "Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act". 2002. Section 24 of this amends "The Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act". 1994. in order to change trespass on land from a civil to a criminal offence. Previously as a civil offence, there was no simple and immediate way to order the removal of a trespasser. It took time, and typically this either allowed the trespasser time to stay longer before a (costly) removal, or else the trespasser stayed for a while then left of their own accord, knowing that they could move on faster than the lawyers moved.

The upshot has been to constrain the traditional movements of Travellers.

A WP:SECONDARY source for this would be: "Law to stop Travellers occupying land without consent is enacted". The Irish Times. 2 July 2022. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:31, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The inclusion of this seems overly activism-y. My ancestors were kicked off the land they tenanted due to enclosure, and were subsequently herded into filthy, overcrowded industrial cities. Travellers still get to play by a different set of rules to the rest of us, but still cry foul and discrimination. 2A00:23C8:A72F:4A01:A932:D7EC:B0D3:BF7 (talk) 07:29, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Keane2005-1] Keane, David (2005). "International law and the ethnicity of Irish Travellers". Washington and Lee Journal of Civil Rights and Social Justice. 11 (1). ISSN 1942-5732.

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